Consider this: Encounter initiative rolls



A lot of tables run right over the encounter initiative roll in OSE and BX games, but that mechanic is what allows PCs and monsters alike to avoid combat, run, hide, parley, surrender, and more.

Let’s review the sequence, starting with the encounter:

1. Roll for wandering (yes) then type, number, distance

2. Roll for surprise (none), Roll initiative

3. Roll monster reaction (after initiative!)

4. Sides react, deciding to fight, talk, or flee.

If (IF!) combat erupts, use the encounter sequence. And that sequence includes its own initiative roll:

A. Declare spells, movement

B. Roll initiative every round

C. Winner acts (Move, Missile, Magic, Melee)

D. Loser(s) act

E. Surrenders, retreats, check morale at 1st and half

There are definitively two rolls.
One happens before the DM even knows if the monsters are violent or enthusiastically friendly, well after the opportunity to make combat declarations for spells and movement has passed—and the other happens after steps 5, 6, and 7 are complete. A LOT of things can happen in that time, and only one of those things is combat:



So why is this confusing? Well, the explanation text that accompanies the sequences isn’t exactly in the right order, for one. And secondly, the text in the INITIATIVE section on B23 mixes the explanations of combat initiative and encounter initiative so severely that you have to do surgery to make the rest of the instructions match:

“To determine initiative, each side rolls 1d6 (the DM rolls for the monsters). The side with the higher roll may move first and attack first in combat for that round.”

It seems painfully damning—but moving first is the language of the encounter sequence, and attacking first speaks to combat. “That round” is respective. It reminds me of the oxford comma cartoon:

Syntax would help. “The side with the higher roll may move first—and attack first in combat—for that round.” or even better yet, “The side with the higher roll for that round acts first.”

“If both sides roll the same number, the DM may either have both sides roll again, or may consider movement and combat for both sides to occur at the same time (known as simultaneous combat).”

^^This is purely discussing combat, and we’re not even in the combat section yet, it’s out of order.. this is how we know the initiative heading is ahead of its skis.

“The side “with the initiative” has the first choice of actions. Members of that side may choose to fight, run, throw a spell, take defensive positions and wait to see what the other side does, start talking, or do anything else that the players or DM can imagine.”

^^Now we’re back to encounters. The initiative encounter winner gets to choose first. They can choose to run or talk or wait because combat has not begun.

“If combat occurs, the side with the initiative always strikes first in that round. Both sides should roll for initiative each round. If both sides tie on their initiative rolls, and combat is simultaneous, it is possible for both sides to be killed!”

^^ Now we’re back to combat. IF combat occurs, the side that wins initiative always strikes first in that round – the combat round. Again, its ahead of its skis. This is on page B23, combat is on page B24.


But as usual, I’ve buried the lead. Except for surprse, all encounters are meant to be avoidable:

This can only be true if combat has not begun. You can not run to evade once combat begins (B24). Whether the players win or lose the encounter initiative roll, they still get to decide whether or not combat will begin. It’s not thrust upon them just by losing the roll:

We want to stay and fight.
We want to stay and talk – even though there is risk combat may begin later.
We want to hide – even though there is risk we may be found and attacked later.
We want to flee and exit the encounter – understanding we may be pursued.

A separate roll preserves player agency without making rulings.

5 responses to “Consider this: Encounter initiative rolls”

  1. Great observation. Have a question: If the party wants to flee, and loses the encounter initiative, won’t they automatically get caught since the monsters act first?

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  2. I answered this and deleted my reply, because I can do it shorter, ha:

    Nope, they can still run away.

    Why?

    Because the loser of ANY initiative roll still gets a turn to do something. If the encounter initiative is Monsters:6, PCs:2, we don’t just blow past the PC’s turn to act as the encounter initiative losers — they get to act on their 2. The monsters use their 6 to decide to attack, the PCs use their 2 to decide to flee.

    “So the monsters won encounter initiative and want to engage combat, but they can’t?”

    Of course they can, they’re still attacking, but now it’s called pursuit! If the PCs stood their ground, the next thing you’d do is roll for combat initiative, because the monsters have decided “it’s on”. And if they catch up with the party, same deal. But at the encounter level, initiative winners AND losers still get to participate in what happens next.

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  3. Taking a longer look, for what it’s worth, the PCs actually have a lot of opportunities to duck combat. If we look at the whole process:

    A roll of just 1 in 6 indicates wandering monsters. Just a 16% chance.

    A roll of 2d6x10′ is made for distance, so *most* monsters can only snag the party in melee if they’re within 60′. That’s about a 46% chance that they can close the gap in one round.

    A surprise roll is 2 in 6, and if the PCs win, they can just run.

    If no one is surprised, the PCs can win or lose and still flee – the monster reaction roll just determines the likelihood of pursuit.

    Finally, if the PCs are surprised AND the monsters roll a reaction of 2 (11 outcomes from 2 to 12 means a 1-in-11 chance so about 9%) then they are indeed committed to combat…

    … however…

    Remember, if the surprising/attacking monsters are distant, they still have to move at their combat rates! They could spend more than one round closing on the party, during which the party can try to escape by moving at their own combat rates.

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  4. I really liked this. I’ll test it in my campaign. Brazilian greetings, Frank!

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    1. Thanks for reading! I’m always looking carefully at the rules to figure out how to get the most flexibility out of them without homebrewing or porting in rules from other systems. In this case, it’s really all caused by ambiguous writing in the original texts.

      BX was vague by accident. OSE…. well… it’s more precise on many subjects, but I think Gavin deliberately stopped short of taking a side in a culture war. He explicitly clarifies that running is not possible once combat starts, but he stops there. He leaves it up to us to figure out WHY:

      – Combat is a type of encounter, so everyone moves at encounter rates.

      – Encounter rates apply once an encounter begins. Therefore you can not run during an encounter either.

      – It sounds like a catch 22: “If no one can run once an encounter starts, how are you ever allowed to run away from an encounter? Fleeing an encounter presupposes that an encounter exists to be fled!”

      – Therefore, there must be an exit mechanic (other than using the ultra-rarely won surprise round) to flee an encounter before it begins and run at 3x. Otherwise every encounter would be a commitment.

      Encounter initiative is that mechanic:
      DM rolls the encounter, encounter initiative is rolled.
      If winning side attacks and the losing side flees, pursuit begins at 3x.
      If winning side flees and losing side attacks, pursuit begins at 3x.
      If winning side attacks and losing side stands ground, roll combat init.
      If losing side attacks and winning side stands ground, roll combat init.
      If both sides attack, roll combat init.
      If neither side attacks nor flees, roleplay.
      If one side attacks mid-roleplay, roll combat init.

      Bottom line, surprise not withstanding:
      1. The party can always choose to play it safe and flee EVERY encounter whether they win or lose the encounter initiative. It’s always their choice to stay and engage the encounter, accepting that they will only move at encounter rates until the encounter ends – whether amicably or in combat.
      2. There is always a combat init roll so that there is a fair chance that even the side that was not planning to attack can still act first. That makes perfect sense: Attacking ANYONE who can see you coming means they could still hit you first, even if fighting was your idea!

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